Suggested Changes To Our Guild Format

Yes, yes, yes, but what are we going to do about those beastmastery hunters with three-letter names? Terribly offensive if you ask me.

sup mc ive me a shout when u get on line do some pvp

Sry duh, I didn't check the forums last night. Daylin and I lvld our BE twins. I'll be on for PvP tonight though. Get some Arenas in hopefully. Some 3v3, and if we have the ppl for it maybe a couple 5v5 for shits and giggles cuz I still havent gotten to try one yet.

ok I'm trying to think this out so I don't tick anyone off but sure I will anyway so here goes. while I agree it's not the job of the officers to organize our gear runs there are only 2-3 of us that are on quite a bit that have a hard time getting help with instances becuz we're not geared for heroics. there have been several times I have pulled off what i'm doing to go help out a fellow guildmate gnomer included LOL. I'm not saying that everyone should pull off what they are doing everytime someone asks for help but heres the thing I feel like it would be alot more fun if everyone could run together but that won't happen unless this conversation stops ["anyone free to help with(insert instance name here" response "heroic" "no reg" "oh then no"]that conversation is so flustrating. I know everyone has their own crap to do but here the thing if the ppl needing gear can't get help getting it they are going to platue and end up not getting any better. another thing I'm noticing is that anytime anyone gets addimant there suddenly becomes a post here thats basically says it's not our job to help you get your crap so deal with it. that maybe not whats meant but thats how it's coming across. high end instances suck with pugs and we all know it which makes it very hard to run an instance that should take 1 to 2 hours winds up taking 3-4 and that sucks. I know there will be some that will read this and say good grief does she ever stop whining. and maybe I'm missing the whole point of this new guild dynamic. I guess this is my next and final question is this the new guild dynamic get your own gear until you can run with the big boys becuz we just belong to the guild to do our own thing and talk in guild chat becuz thats the feeling I'm getting I guess this will be my last "whiny" post cuz I don't feel like it does anygood to voice my opinion anyway. so there it is that's my opinion sorry to anyone I might have pissed off

Bry,
I can tell how frustrated you are and I definitely sympathize, up to a point. But I would say a couple of things.
1) coming up I know that I personally did not have a group of officers willing to put runs together for me to get gear. What would happen most often if I really needed help would be that I would try to cobble a group together with as many guildies as I could at my level, throw in a pugger or two, and if we were really in over our heads then I would ask an officer or a 70 in the guild to come in and help. Sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't. These groups weren't really pugs because I did as much work as I could on my own to get good people to go, then tried to fill in the blanks.
2) pugs definitely suck sometimes. But I've met some great toons in pugs. I met Telroon on one of his alts in a pug and dragged his butt into the guild, for instance. Humbah and I started questing together and he was in another guild for quite a while before I talked him into dropping them for us. So pugs can be a great way to meet people and to add to the richness and goodness of our own guild. In addition, even the bad pugs tend to make you a better player. When you are handicapped you have to work your own toon to its fullest potential and you learn more about what you are capable of. Finally, I'm the first one to bitch about pugs, but in all fairness, I only bitch about the bad ones, but when they go well I'm not in guild chat saying, "whew, great pug! Pugs can be awesome!" But sometimes they are. Sometimes they are ok, sometimes they're great.
We all have our own individual goals and needs in the game and, although I have many friends playing at any given time, I don't expect my guildies to help me accomplish them. I ask when I need help, but I don't get offended or mad when help isn't forthcoming. I just find another way to achieve my goal or wait until another day to see it through. My guildies and my friends don't owe me anything, so their help is always greatly appreciated by me, never expected.
3) Just because someone isn't helping a guildie with an immediate goal doesn't mean they aren't helping the guild. For example, I've spent a lot of time all by my lonesome lately working on leveling up leatherworking. I've not jumped off of this to help with instances necessarily, partly because I don't often have the chunk of time an instance requires and partly because what I'm doing, while bearing direct benefit for myself, also benefits the guild. I was just able to make an armor kit and some glove reinforcements for Crow, for example, that I couldn't have made 2 weeks ago, all because I spent time on my own working on my profession. So the next time Crow helps you out, or me, or anyone else in the guild, the time I spent leveling leather instead of running an instance for someone will still help the guild to progress. That's EVERY time Crow runs an instance in that gear, or is farming his own mats for his own profession, or whatever else he is doing. This same principle applies when people are out running heroics and other people can't come along. We ran Heroic Bot last night and I walked out with enough heroic badges to get a new trinket that increased my healing so that every heal I cast from now on, and some of them will be cast on you I'm sure, will be a sronger heal, will keep the guild alive and stronger longer.
4) The officers got burned out for a while. There was a time when some officers felt like they couldn't comfortably log on to their main because they were under pressure always to help guildies level this and get that and accomplish the other. The expectation became very high. So it is not necessarily the case that the officers do not want to help at all. Many of them just need a break. They need to have some time to do the things that are fun for them, to bring enjoyment back for themselves. I'm sure that if you give them some space to do that you will find once again that people are willing to help more.
5) I've been 70 for months. I don't know how many off the top of my head, bit I think it's been 3 or so. I still have less than half of my gear as epic. I didn't and do not expect to get everything all at once. I ran pug after pug after pug to GET MYSELF geared up for Kara. Seriously. Pug after pug after pug. Ask the guildies how many times I ran Mechanar pugs. Now I'm working my butt off all by my lonesome to level up leatherworking so that I can MAKE MYSELF some epic gear that will help to progress the guild. The officers ARE helping you when they are helping themselves, believe it or not. Because when you do get geared up and hit Kara there will be 7,8,9 of us with you who have been working on it for weeks and have gotten drops and gear that will allow us to take you through it safely and without the steep learning curve and HIGH bills that we had to suffer through when we first started running it. We will have spent gold on consumables and armor repairs and gear for weeks so that you won't have to.

I'm not mad by your post but I do think that you need to take a broader perspective on things. I enjoy helping the guildies and do so when I can. But that does NOT always mean that I'm running instances with them. Every improvement I make to my toon helps everyone out. And every time you are innovative and find ways to meet your own goals you are helping out the guild, too.

I understand what your saying mc and I'm not pissed I'm just trying to figure this out as it is very flustering I understand that stepping away from your own high end content to help a lower content player can get dull and overwhelming at time belive me I'm going thru that right now with aggie but I do becuz I want him to be able to get to my level and enjoy the same content I guess what I'm getting at is it seems to make alot of us feel like the creepy ppl in major citites begging for money when we ask and ask and ask and ask for help with an instance and 2 weeks later we're still standing there begging for help I don't know maybe it's just me but I'm seeing this alot not just for me but for other players as well I just seem to be the only one steeping up and being the squeaky wheel I guess I'm not trying to guilt anyone or anything like that just saying it would be nice to not have to beg so much

ok the way that I'm reading that, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that for 2 weeks you were unable to take the initiative to get a group together and run an instance on your own. It seems as though your preference is to wait until there is a full group to help you along, and when that isn't forthcoming you get frustrated. That sounds frustrating to me, too, which is why I don't always depend on my guildmates to help me accomplish my own goals. I find other ways to accomplish them, in addition to spending my time helping others. I feel like this is a harsh response in a way, but it's an honest one. I'm a generous person by nature, and feel a great deal of responsibility to help and protect the guild. I'm a healer, for goodness sake. But I have to tell you that I don't think you absorbed what I was trying to say in my previous post. If you can't find guildies to help you, your choices are pretty clear to me. You can 1) wait until guildies are available and willing to help you, although that might be a long, frustrating wait, 2) help yourself by doing the best you can, or 3) try to find another guild that is more helpful or more comfortable or better suited to your gaming style if you are unhappy. The officers are all aware that the guild has needs. I don't think that it's too much to ask after months of constant help for the guildies that the officers take a step back to breathe, enjoy, and help the guild in other ways that might not be as obvious. We pay to play, too. I have a job. I'm here 40+ hours a week. It's stressful. It's a lot of responsibility. But they pay me very well to do it. I don't necessarily want to pay out of my own pocket to go home and be at another job during my free time. I am by nature very altruistic and want to help. But I need to have the freedom to enjoy this game, too. So do all of the officers.

I'm sry to hear that, as for my content, I could care less lately. I haven't needed the first four bosses in kara since the 1st kill of moroes two and half months ago, but I've been there every single time except the time I let lucili come in my spot and then last Saturday... I do my stuff to socialize with everybody in the guild and have fun. I personally enjoy raiding so that is where my attentions were. As I told the officers it's not fun when the enjoyment of raiding with friends is taken entirely away for the needs of others. I'm sry you've feel left out, but the truth of the matter is that several of the raiders had complained to me b4 I stepped down that they didn't want to partake anymore, and I kept pushing it anyways. If you want to blame somebody then here I am, but the officers and even just the higher-geared members did an outstanding job over the last month helping wherever they could. It's unfair to say that ppl have been overlooked when countless tiimes they have stepped away from their needs to help others. Your gear may not be where you would like it, but nobody's else is either. Everybody is constantly working on new things, and I would urge you to recognize that the guild is comprised of all of our contributions.

yea I'll second that. I haven't needed a Kara drop from the first 4 bosses in ages but I'm at every raid cause we need healers.

I thank you both for going to Kara consistently. The first 4 bosses are basically for fun really. I have this desire to off the entire instance just for the same reason. Granted I've gotten some swell (beaver cleaver) gear but I'm diggin PvP atm too. Mantisa will soon be able to rotate in on heals fo sho.

ok syll I understand your point in both posts and want to say that when I made my second post it must have been at the same time you posted the first time as I didn't see it however I have tried to put together pugs on my own and but even here latly pugs are hard to come by I've spent hours in lfg to no avail I also underastand that everyone working on their own stuff also helps the guild but at any rate I'm not being able to my point without making everyone thing I want everything ahnded to me becuz I don't I'm willing to work my tail off to get it I guess what I'm saying ..... I'm just gonna leave it at that and let it go